Форум Союза Славянских Общин Славянской Родной Веры: Cosmology - Форум Союза Славянских Общин Славянской Родной Веры

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Cosmology What is the Slavic Concept? Оценка: -----

#1 Пользователь офлайн   Aelfgifu

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Отправлено 06 Январь 2011 - 01:54

Hi everyone - well I've got loads of questions to ask about how Slavic Heathens see things, but thought I'd begin with a very basic concept - what is your cosmology? Do you have a world tree like Yggdrasil or Irminsul? In my own Anglo-saxon tradition it is the Irminsul ( http://www.gangleri....nd-world-trees/ )-
http://soomasworld.yooco.de/uploads/s1/images/website/43161/image/Irminsul_celt.jpg

This was a holy symbol of the continental Saxons, plus the Stags and Serpents you see in the picture here are mentioned in old English texts as being present at Heathen holy sites here in England, so they must have had a symbolic significance.

Do you have a picture of the Slavic cosmological concept?

#2 Пользователь офлайн   Хранибор

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Отправлено 09 Январь 2011 - 01:34

Here is the picture of Slavic world tree.
The description I will write later.

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#3 Пользователь офлайн   Волк Бусый

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Отправлено 09 Январь 2011 - 04:09

Sorry for my late...
Yep, sis, we have. Cause it's very similar to yours concepts, because the whole European cult of Mother the Tree is a general artifact. We call it "ROD" or the Sacral Oak. But sometimes you can read its krone grows in the ground and its roots are situated at the top. Very interesting outlook. The picture Hranibor showed you is one of the lots. I will try to find more.
As it's usual the Whole Tree symbol shows us how the world is made. The krone of the Tree is the Gods World, trunk is the Middle World, and the roots are in the Dead World. Our concept consists of main three worlds - Jav' (Midgard), Prav' (Asgard) and Nav' (Hel). You could read about this on the Eldaring forum.

#4 Пользователь офлайн   Aelfgifu

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Отправлено 11 Январь 2011 - 03:06

Yes it seems that our World Trees are very similar (thankyou Хранибор for the lovely pic!).

Ulv - I'm just curious - the name "prav" for the Gods' world, is it related to the Russian term "pravda" at all, as in possibly coming from the same root word? Also, I remember the discussion on Nav etc from the Eldaring forum, and will reread that thread because it was very interesting - I think we share similar beliefs about that too.

#5 Пользователь офлайн   Волк Бусый

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Отправлено 11 Январь 2011 - 03:25

Просмотр сообщенияAelfgifu (11 января 2011 - 03:06):

Yes it seems that our World Trees are very similar (thankyou Хранибор for the lovely pic!).

Ulv - I'm just curious - the name "prav" for the Gods' world, is it related to the Russian term "pravda" at all, as in possibly coming from the same root word? Also, I remember the discussion on Nav etc from the Eldaring forum, and will reread that thread because it was very interesting - I think we share similar beliefs about that too.

Sure, yes! Pravda (a truth) and Prav' (Asgard, - in Asatru) are words of the same root "prav". Also when we tell "I'm right" it will be "Ja prav" (males for) or "Ja prava" (females for).

#6 Пользователь офлайн   Aelfgifu

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Отправлено 12 Январь 2011 - 03:03

Просмотр сообщенияВолк Бусый (11 января 2011 - 00:25):

Sure, yes! Pravda (a truth) and Prav' (Asgard, - in Asatru) are words of the same root "prav". Also when we tell "I'm right" it will be "Ja prav" (males for) or "Ja prava" (females for).


Ah - I thought it must be linked! "Truth" as in what is holy, good, right, correct - makes sense that it is the name of the gods' home! :)

#7 Пользователь офлайн   Волк Бусый

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Отправлено 12 Январь 2011 - 03:20

Ah - I thought it must be linked! "Truth" as in what is holy, good, right, correct - makes sense that it is the name of the gods' home!
This proves once more time again that paganism is a religion of goodness and light. But it's strong and fair too.
For the full answer. Word "Nav' " (Hel, - in Asatru) has the common root with "nav'ja" (spirit of a dead human or helper of the Morana - Goddess of a Death and Coldness). Others words with this root are rare for using in Russian language, only in Old Russian. The word "Jav' " had common root with "na javu" (in reality, not in a dream). So our words we use are related to the ancient true values of these words. When we tell "I'd seen that in reality" we mean that was happened in Midgard.
Oh, it's just a Russian spoken language lesson :lol:
Btw, what's about your old words? Are they related to ancient (Celtic or German) roots and values of Old English?

#8 Пользователь офлайн   Aelfgifu

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Отправлено 14 Январь 2011 - 17:16

Просмотр сообщенияВолк Бусый (12 января 2011 - 00:20):

Ah - I thought it must be linked! "Truth" as in what is holy, good, right, correct - makes sense that it is the name of the gods' home!
This proves once more time again that paganism is a religion of goodness and light. But it's strong and fair too.



Exactly! This is what I like about it - it venerates goodness and light but does not say "here, let your enemies and evil flourish, let them walk all over you!" :P Sometimes maintaining the goodness and light requires us to fight. This notion is present in Hinduism as well, and was the original meaning of "ahimsa", usually translated as "non-violence". In the original thinking, this did not mean any sort of total pacifism, but the notion that one maintains peace unless "Dharma" or "the good society" is threatened, then one can use force to conquer evil. This idea is explored nicely in the Bhagavad Gita, though sadly Nazis such as Himmler grossly twisted this particular text to suit their own murderous agenda. We shouldn't let that spoil it for us though - this is a very valuable piece of Indo-european poetry which makes reference to a heavenly paradise for warriors who do their duty and die fighting for a noble cause, which of course shows up in our own faiths too.

Цитата

For the full answer. Word "Nav' " (Hel, - in Asatru) has the common root with "nav'ja" (spirit of a dead human or helper of the Morana - Goddess of a Death and Coldness). Others words with this root are rare for using in Russian language, only in Old Russian.


I believe that Morana, Irish Мorrighan ("Phantom Queen") and Anglo-saxon Hretha to all be the same goddess, though this is purely my own inspiration - others may think differently! When I was researching about Hretha, I kept seeing this lady in my mind, wearing a black cloak with a white dress underneath. She had a crow or raven on her shoulder and had very long, clawlike nails. She was surrounded by fog and mist, and it seemed very cold where she was. Her special festival was in the month of March, roughly the end of winter here, and this month is immediately followed by "Eostremonath", which is holy to Eostre, the goddess of spring. I think Hrethe and Eostre are like 2 sides of a coin - one represents cold, winter and death, the other presides over warmth, spring and new life. This picture of Morena from the link you posted (and description of her!) fits so much what I've seen of Hrethe (and Eostre her counterpart sounds so much like Vesna!)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_laDCgp63eks/TNF1JU1JG1I/AAAAAAAAAEU/UyPjU7rIWP8/s1600/406px-Morana_&_Vesna.jpg

Going back to the Morrighan, it seems to me that the names Morana and Morrighan likely come from a the same Indo-european root, since both goddesses are linked to "phantoms" and the harsher (though inevitable and necessary) side of nature.

Цитата

The word "Jav' " had common root with "na javu" (in reality, not in a dream). So our words we use are related to the ancient true values of these words. When we tell "I'd seen that in reality" we mean that was happened in Midgard.
Oh, it's just a Russian spoken language lesson :lol:


Oh I like these lessons in Russian language - they're fascinating! :)



Цитата

Btw, what's about your old words? Are they related to ancient (Celtic or German) roots and values of Old English?


Yes indeed - for our upper world we have both the old English names "Heofon" (our modern "Heaven") and Esageard/Osgeard (meaning "Enclosure of the Gods", the exact equivalent of Norse Asgard). Midgard in old English is simply Middangeard, and the word for Hel is exactly the same in old English as in old Norse. In Welsh tradition there is Annwn (Hel), Abred (Midgard) and Gwynvid (Home of the Gods and Higher Beings) - Welsh lore has an even higher state called Ceugant which can translate as "infinity" (I feel there may be a parallel to this realm in Germanic lore called Gimli ["Gleaming"] which is said to be a hall for the most enlightened and good following Ragnarok.) The Welsh otherworlds names are mentioned in a text known as the Barddas, dating from the 17th century and written by an Edward Williams (whose Bardic name was lolo Morganwg), and who claimed that his work was an authentic presentation of ancient Druidic lore. Some claim that he made the material up, but I reckon that at least some of may have been quite genuine. You can read about that in this article here http://www.be.paganf...org/druidry.htm

#9 Пользователь офлайн   Aelfgifu

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Отправлено 14 Январь 2011 - 18:01

I forgot to mention - I think that the world tree is a motif in Hinduism as well, and is of course present in Siberian Shamanistic lore also - I think it is a very ancient Indo-european mythic theme, which along with the idea of the "Holy Hill", sacred mound or mountain (as is found in Greek lore), represents a sort of "otherworldly map" or set of access points via which humans can access access other states of being. I'm very into shamanistic practices, though I don't claim to be a Shaman (they live in Siberia if one wants to be truly linguistically correct! ;) :D) Having said that, I think we all have our own rough equivalents of the Siberian Tungus Shaman, which can be found as far apart as Africa and Tibet. Even if a culture's practices could not be called "shamanism" per se, they can often be called "shamanistic". I believe the Germanic Seidr (Siden in old English) practices were quite shamanistic, and also the mysterious witchlore of England and Germany (which seemed to include such as communicating with the Dead and also soulflight - the broomstick is thought by some to be a shamanic steed for travelling the otherworlds.)
I wrote a couple of articles on my blog about these subjects, which you can find here:
Anglo-saxon Wiccecraeft
Anglo-saxon Wiccecraeft 2
Siden/Seidr - Is it all good?

This article on Anglo-saxon Witchcraft by Swain Wodening is also interesting http://witchcraft.en...witchcraft.html

#10 Пользователь офлайн   Хранибор

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Отправлено 21 Январь 2011 - 16:16

World Tree growing on the rock Alatyr that situated on Buyan island. It is throne of world reign and the brige to anoter worlds. In ceremonial spells speaks that the light gods lives in the top of Tree and the dark gods lives near the roots. The continue for honouring of World Tree we can see in New Year Tree.

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